Any etymological relationship betw "Jolly ROGER" & 19th C. UK slang "ROGER" (v tr: to make love to a woman)?

I've seen musings re: Jolly Roger that it was an English corruption of French phrase "joli rouge" (an ironic reference to bloodsoaked flags supposedly flown by early buccaneers). Perhaps "jolly" has a specifically nautical nuance; e.g., certain small boats carried by larger ships were known as "jolly boats." [How old is the phrase "Jolly Roger" anyway? Is it possible that Howard Pyle invented it in his 20th C. Book of Pirates?] Why do I suspect there may be a connection between the 2 Rogers? As is well known, the main obligation of any pirate gang was to pillage mercilessly. Unhappily, most pirates possessed very low moral character. Like Mary's Little Lamb, where ever pillage went, rapine was sure to go. Not much of a jump to the Victorian slang term, with its unavoidable connotation of vigorous male action. Person A was said to "roger" Person B, who was described as having been "rogered" by Person A.

Any etymological relationship betw "Jolly ROGER" %26amp; 19th C. UK slang "ROGER" (v tr: to make love to a woman)?
Unfortunately, nobody really knows the answer to your question. Not that I doubt that pirates would have enjoyed the doube entendre involved in raising a jolly roger, mind you.





One common theory for the name has it coming from the French 'joli rouge', meaning 'merry red'. Which is a plausible theory, I suppose, if you assume that all the early pirates were English merchantmen who didn't bother to change their flags before they turned to piracy.





The problem is that pirate flags have been around from the early 1700's, and many of them are completely different from each other. Some are red, some have weapons, and some were even the 'traditional' skull and bones. So if the name was adopted early, it doesn't seem too likely (to me, at least) that it was adopted based on any characteristics of the flags themselves.

hyacinth